Hourly rates

Please excuse me if this is not a proper forum for the following question:
I am curious about hourly rates/yearly income that some one with following
credentials could get with out a specific industry domain expertise.
Very excellent technical knowledge,SQL server MVP, MCDBA, written A book,
active in newsgroups, and few articles in sql server magazine.
I am thinking about becoming the best I can in terms of sql server
programming and wondering how much money I could make.
TIA.Hi Trisha,
I will let you know MY experience based in UK. I've been doing this since
1996 and used SQL Server from version 1 on OS/2.
It really depends on the following:
1) Who you work for. Having tens years of investment banking experience in a
large US or European city will get you paid a lot more than an MVP who has
worked for the government for ten years. Your employment/client history has
the most significant impact on rates.
2) The MVP award does not have a significant impact on rates. I think this
is because most companies set a budget and rarely extend beyond that. They
want someone experienced enough to do the job, and if they're an MVP, then
it's a bonus. Having said that, the MVP award will tend to keep you employed
during lean times, but it won't push your rates through the glass ceiling.
Some employers haven't even heard of the MVP award, but the awareness is
growing.
3) The same goes for writing a book. I co-authored a book on SQL-DMO, which
was quite a niche area and consequently did not become a best-seller, howeve
r
it did sell quite well considering it's niche value. This book did not impac
t
my rates because of the aforementioned glass ceiling. However, it makes me
more competitive with other candidates in a competitive market.
4) The most significant factors on gaining employment and rates are your
experience, your education - do you have a degree, and most importantly
whether the interviewer likes you or not. I have been turned down a few time
s
before just because I didn't "click" with the interviewer.
Now, you should really not be in this business for the money. I am certainly
not. I started my career in 1994 in sales and hated every minute of it. I
then took a few months out, did some soul searching and realised that the
work I LOVED was computing. I do this work because I love it - some people
will certainly regard me as a sad git for saying this, but hey, horses for
courses :-) It just so happens that I get reasonably well paid for it, but
I
won't get rich in IT, unless I am the employer. Do you have a home network a
t
home with database servers running on it? I do. I have three machines runnin
g
constantly, one of them has eight virtual machines on it with various builds
of SQL Server and Windows Server. This will be a good clue as to how
committed you are.
I admire your aspirations and wish you all the best. Just keep focused and
examine your motivations. The people that "get ahead" long term are the
people that love their work. If you don't love your work, sooner or later yo
u
will get bored and it will show up in the quality of your work, which will
impact your rate, employability, and eventually your happiness.
Good luck!
Mark Allison, SQL Server MVP
http://www.markallison.co.uk
Looking for a SQL Server replication book?
http://www.nwsu.com/0974973602m.html
"Trisha" wrote:

> Please excuse me if this is not a proper forum for the following question:
> I am curious about hourly rates/yearly income that some one with following
> credentials could get with out a specific industry domain expertise.
> Very excellent technical knowledge,SQL server MVP, MCDBA, written A book,
> active in newsgroups, and few articles in sql server magazine.
> I am thinking about becoming the best I can in terms of sql server
> programming and wondering how much money I could make.
> TIA.|||I agree completely with Mark Allison's eloquent response...
Additionally, doing well and trying to be the best you can be ( at whatever
you choose ) is an attitude, personality and whether you enjoy the work
thing, regardless of the money... Pick something you love, do it well, and
you will be happy...
If I were in a position where I was very good at SQL, well known in the
industry, had a good job , and made good money but hated the work - it would
be a waste of life - and this is not a trial run...
( Great response Mark, very insightful.)
Wayne Snyder MCDBA, SQL Server MVP
Mariner, Charlotte, NC
(Please respond only to the newsgroup.)
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server ( PASS) and it's
community of SQL Professionals.
"Trisha" <trisha@.nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:BA26333B-757D-415C-BA20-89B523E21150@.microsoft.com...
> Please excuse me if this is not a proper forum for the following question:
> I am curious about hourly rates/yearly income that some one with following
> credentials could get with out a specific industry domain expertise.
> Very excellent technical knowledge,SQL server MVP, MCDBA, written A book,
> active in newsgroups, and few articles in sql server magazine.
> I am thinking about becoming the best I can in terms of sql server
> programming and wondering how much money I could make.
> TIA.|||Mark and Wayne,
Thank you both for your very helpful responses. I do very much enjoy SQL
server programming. For last 10 years I have been mostly involved in front
end vb/c/c++/c#/html/javascript side of things but now I want a slight caree
r
change and do back end - database work 100%.
I hang out here a lot, read the posts, practice them, and learn as much as
possible.
In southern california, a recruiter was paying 90k+/year for a "good" sql
server programmer.
I was wondering what would it take to consistently make 200k/year or is it
out of question. I know my question is relative and it has 'lots of depends'
factors associated with it but I was just wondering out loud.
What kind of actual realistic steps that I can take to SHARPEN my skills
besides JUST READING BOOKS.
TIA...
"Wayne Snyder" wrote:

> I agree completely with Mark Allison's eloquent response...
> Additionally, doing well and trying to be the best you can be ( at whateve
r
> you choose ) is an attitude, personality and whether you enjoy the work
> thing, regardless of the money... Pick something you love, do it well, and
> you will be happy...
> If I were in a position where I was very good at SQL, well known in the
> industry, had a good job , and made good money but hated the work - it wou
ld
> be a waste of life - and this is not a trial run...
> ( Great response Mark, very insightful.)
> --
> Wayne Snyder MCDBA, SQL Server MVP
> Mariner, Charlotte, NC
> (Please respond only to the newsgroup.)
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server ( PASS) and it's
> community of SQL Professionals.
> "Trisha" <trisha@.nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:BA26333B-757D-415C-BA20-89B523E21150@.microsoft.com...
>
>|||To be honest, I find your questions a bit "strange". I fully agree with Mark
and Wayne that it's more important to do something you love doing rather
than doing what pays you the most. When that's said, I'm sure that the most
of us would like to get payed as much as possible for the work we do, but it
depends on a lot of factors (as already mentioned).
If you have been a programmer and hence been in the IT business for 10
years, you should now the level of payment. Eventhough you haven't been a
full time SQL DBA/Programmer, the payment wouldn't be that much different
from other programmers.
There might be a few guys making 200k/year but I'd say they are few - at
least in Europe, and you need to be quite good to get to that level.
The most realistic step to take, it to be real and work with the stuff to
get some experience. Then, in my opinion, a good DBA/SQL Programmer is a
person that not only knows SQL but also has experience in a lot of the
"surrounding" stuff - e.g. has some knowledge about networks, servers, PC's
etc. The more you know, the better you are finding out why things doen't
always behave like you expect. If you are a DBA, it doens't help a lot that
you are very good at SQL scripts, if you can't figure out that it's a
security setting that prevents your users from being able to connect to the
server.
/Steen
Trisha wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> Mark and Wayne,
> Thank you both for your very helpful responses. I do very much enjoy
> SQL server programming. For last 10 years I have been mostly involved
> in front end vb/c/c++/c#/html/javascript side of things but now I
> want a slight career change and do back end - database work 100%.
> I hang out here a lot, read the posts, practice them, and learn as
> much as possible.
> In southern california, a recruiter was paying 90k+/year for a "good"
> sql server programmer.
> I was wondering what would it take to consistently make 200k/year or
> is it out of question. I know my question is relative and it has
> 'lots of depends' factors associated with it but I was just wondering
> out loud.
> What kind of actual realistic steps that I can take to SHARPEN my
> skills besides JUST READING BOOKS.
> TIA...
> "Wayne Snyder" wrote:
>|||that's exactly why the MCDBA cert is built upon the core four 2000
exams....you need to know the OS upon which the SQL platform is built!
"Steen Persson" wrote:

> To be honest, I find your questions a bit "strange". I fully agree with Ma
rk
> and Wayne that it's more important to do something you love doing rather
> than doing what pays you the most. When that's said, I'm sure that the mos
t
> of us would like to get payed as much as possible for the work we do, but
it
> depends on a lot of factors (as already mentioned).
> If you have been a programmer and hence been in the IT business for 10
> years, you should now the level of payment. Eventhough you haven't been a
> full time SQL DBA/Programmer, the payment wouldn't be that much different
> from other programmers.
> There might be a few guys making 200k/year but I'd say they are few - at
> least in Europe, and you need to be quite good to get to that level.
> The most realistic step to take, it to be real and work with the stuff to
> get some experience. Then, in my opinion, a good DBA/SQL Programmer is a
> person that not only knows SQL but also has experience in a lot of the
> "surrounding" stuff - e.g. has some knowledge about networks, servers, PC'
s
> etc. The more you know, the better you are finding out why things doen't
> always behave like you expect. If you are a DBA, it doens't help a lot tha
t
> you are very good at SQL scripts, if you can't figure out that it's a
> security setting that prevents your users from being able to connect to th
e
> server.
>
> /Steen
>
> Trisha wrote:
>
>|||Trisha,
You also need to look at economics. The reason IT staff are reasonably
well paid is because there exists a large demand for them (at the
moment) and a relatively limited supply. I personally don't feel that I
get paid a lot of money, it is a wage that I am comfortable on. Bear in
mind that supply and demand can shift one way or the other depending on
market conditions, oil prices, world peace, the weather, politics, etc.
My wife often remarks to me that I don't seem to have a problem getting
up in the morning (which I don't normally if I haven't been down the
pub), and that is because I enjoy my work. If you spend most of your
waking hours in work, then why not do something you enjoy. It sounds
like you enjoy programming, and if databases float your boat, then
great! Go for it! You will automatically do a good job because you love
it, and then the money will follow, however you will never be rich as a
programmer working for someone else.
If you want to be rich, read something like Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert
Kiyosaki and act on his advice.
Mark.
Trisha wrote:
> Mark and Wayne,
> Thank you both for your very helpful responses. I do very much enjoy SQL
> server programming. For last 10 years I have been mostly involved in front
> end vb/c/c++/c#/html/javascript side of things but now I want a slight car
eer
> change and do back end - database work 100%.
> I hang out here a lot, read the posts, practice them, and learn as much as
> possible.
> In southern california, a recruiter was paying 90k+/year for a "good" sql
> server programmer.
> I was wondering what would it take to consistently make 200k/year or is it
> out of question. I know my question is relative and it has 'lots of depend
s'
> factors associated with it but I was just wondering out loud.
> What kind of actual realistic steps that I can take to SHARPEN my skills
> besides JUST READING BOOKS.
> TIA...
>